Australian Concert Bands

Hi Everyone

It has been mentioned here that the band that visited Ivanhoe from Germany in 2007 was not eligible for competition. Is that strictly true?

I remember that the band was given POINTS for each section. This would surely have not been the case if the band was somehow ineligible.

As pointed out above, we have had bands from NZ and Japan on a regular basis for several years now - and a Junior concert band from Canada this year. Some of these have won their respective grades.

Jubey

Is unley graded as an A grade band in SA or do they just compete in that grade at State Comps? I think going to other state comps is great, not only for the band going but for the competition organisers too. Having a different grading system between States would seem to complicate things though.

I thought that the Dusseldorf band were able to compete. they were placed in the list of seven bands ahead of SACB (I believe they were 6th, right?) so surely if they not being adjudicated for prizes, they wouldn't have been put in the placings list or given a score (as this would have been unfair to any band placed after them. I thought they were judged like everyone else and included like everyone else. Otherwise, where's the equality with them and say, Pelorus who won in Brisbane last year?

Nicole - UCB

Oh and just on a quick note, I know that Donna's comments are necessarily the opinions on SACB so there are no hard feelings towards that band whatsoever, from my perspective.

lg wrote:Is unley graded as an A grade band in SA or do they just compete in that grade at State Comps? I think going to other state comps is great, not only for the band going but for the competition organisers too. Having a different grading system between States would seem to complicate things though.

I believe from the writings of our SA colleagues that yes, Unley is graded A grade in SA.

In saying so my former band the SACB had a ongoing disagreement with the VBL (now resolved) for a number of years regarding the SACB's grading. For years, as long as I can remember the SACB has graded B grade. The VBL decided because that we had won numerous B grade titles that the band should be promoted to A grade, which the SACB refused to go to in that our conductor felt that the SACB was not of sufficient standard. Even though the SACB did in fact compete in A grade competition at state level for quite a few years, and B grade (often in the same comp.), while we often got places at A grade level we never won A grade, and we were certainly not at A grade level for National competition. A bit of history on this: during the 1990's the winning band at national A grade level was the band from the Elder Conservatorium in Adelaide where, reputedly, they regarded the competitions as a warm up to their regular concert season.

This being said, and in this regard I do sort of support Donna's points, that the grading system probably needs looking at. I know that in New Zealand, even though they have mainly (if not all) brass bands, they have a very strong national association that is very firm on the grading system which flows down to regional competitions. In Australia it seems this is not quite so. What we do have are reasonably strong state band organisations that decided grading for the particular state. And you are right lg this would complicate things quite a bit. I am not saying the NBCA is not a strong overall association but its main aim is to give each state association a common voice, and to promote the National competition. In some regards the New Zealand band organisation is way ahead of us in that not only is their national association very strong but the grading system is agreed on a national level.

It gives us a bit of food for thought. I still support the notion that bands are free to play when and where they like but as we have just discovered the quirks in state grading have led to some confusion. The input from jubey and nicole has been valuable. Perhaps Ben this could be a separate thread...? I hope my thoughts made sense.

Hey jdekorte

Feel free to start a new post! The more the better

But this has been a great thread. Lost of valuable input! I only hope that some of the band assos's memebers are cruising around reading these to see what members opinions are (not band opinions!!!)

Oops, I meant NOT necessarily the opinions of SACB.

Sorry

Nicole

Hi lg

A bit of history is needed to answer this question.

There was a fairly serious split in the 90's where a separate concert band association was formed from the NBCA-recognised SA Band Association. This Association - CBASA - had faded out by about 2001. It had the misfortune of not having enough people involved to achieve critical mass, no funds, and it was not recognised by NBCA. This was important for the issue of registrations, bands' participation at Nationals, etc.

In 2002, the SABA announced that it would run a concert band division at the SA State Championships. Three bands registered with the Association and entered the contest: Onkaparinga, Unley, and TTG Redbacks. It is interesting to note that each of these bands have remained very active and have subsequently competed at Nationals several times over the years.

Contests have been run each year since. Only the 2006 and 2007 contests included set tests. These were Masada and Manhattan Pictures. All other years have been own choice major works. It is interesting to note that the use of set tests diminished the number of competing bands.

The Concert Band grade has been called various things: "Open Concert Band", "Concert Band Division 1", "Open A Grade Concert Band".

I reiterate my previous point: it doesn't really matter what the SABA calls its contest divisions. We have only one A Grade Band in SA, and that is the Elder Conservatorium Wind Ensemble. This band does not participate in State Championships. Other bands, such as Unley, Onkaparinga, Redbacks, etc. are B Grade.

The primary function of the the NBCA is to oversee the National Band Championships - arrangements, rules, etc. There is an argument that its function should be much broader. However, banding is modelled on a federal system where the State Associations have much of the power. There would be those that argue that, if the brief of the NBCA was significantly broadened (even if this was possible), there would be many more issues challenging our movement than streamlining state gradings. For example, having a look at a nationally-equal playing field for registration rules would be a real step forward.

Jubey

Thanks for that jubey, that was very interesting.

We had a similar split about 10 years ago when a group of concert bands split from the VBL to form their own concert band network comprising now six bands. These bands however didn't see the need to start competing again and some other concert bands, namely Southern Area and a few others decided to stay with the VBL. Recently some other concert bands in Victoria have re-registered with the VBL such as Eltham and Grainger in order to compete at state and national level. This is good for the band movement but we are a bit strung because the VBL is top-loaded with brass band representatives on the executive. They have appointed a vice-president for concert bands - the ultimate aim as indicated by Chris Bowman in various other forums is to start a wholly separate concert band competition comprising of community and school concert bands.

As far as I knew, the Concert Band Association of South Australia was still running up until 2004 (I used to receive mail and newsletters as a band secretary from them). It ceased to exist from about July 2004 when their current secretary passed away sadly and there was noone to take over - CBASA was already on shaky ground, as Jubey says, because of its lack of recognition by SABA and NBCA and this was the final straw, I think. Unfortunately the whole organisation disbanded then and there.

Maybe this is a good new topic to discuss - regarding the worthiness of a concert band-specific managing body that maybe suggests/discusses grading rules and other concert band specific issues with the State banding body. Whilst it would probably be never the foremost official recognised organisation in terms of contesting, it may help in getting decisions made regarding topics like the grading system 'overhaul' in all states and take the burden of the state banding organisations making such a decision. In such a brass focused community (across all states), maybe it could get concert bands' voices heard.

Just a thought.... I'd be interested to hear others suggestions.

Nicole - UCB

lg wrote:In the past, there has been a view in victoria throughout the concert bands that the VBL doesn't really care about them and that it is all about brass bands, so running a contest like this and trying to find out what the concert bands want, i think shows that the VBL is committed to promoting and providing for them. There are so many kids playing in concert bands in schools that they understand they need to focus some attention in this area to keep young people associated with the VBL in future.

I'll attempt to comment on each point raised in this thread.

The VBL is very keen to re-engage concert bands in Victoria. The tradition of brass bands in this state is very strong. Unfortunately, the association has been largely unsuccessful in meeting the needs of concert bands. This problem can't be fixed quickly. Having said that, we are to rectify it. The necessary time it takes to achieve important change doesn't always align with the pace of modern society and expectations. Please be patient.

jdekorte wrote:The results are up on the VBL website and are as follows:

A Grade Concert:
Grainger Wind Symphony: (Grainger was invited to fill out the A grade contest and were not adjudicated)
Geelong Concert Band: 1st place

B Grade Concert:
Unley Concert Band: 1st place (apparently Unley was invited to attend as well and my contacts tell me they were supposed to compete in the A grade section)
Eltham Concert Band: 2nd place
Southern Area Concert Band: 3rd place

C Grade Concert:
Warrnambool City Band: 1st place
Bendigo & District Concert Band: 2nd place

Junior C Grade Concert:
Melton High School: 1st place
(Melton were placed up against a Junior C grade Brass Band, Hyde Street Youth but it appears both bands were judged seperately.

The points breakdown is on the page the VBL have linked through on the VBL website.

Both Grainger and Unley were invited to attend. Both competed in their sections. I have no idea where the notion of Grainger not competing came from??? It's news to me. I also have no knowledge of Unley being "supposed to compete in A Grade".

donnajo wrote:It's interesting to read on this forum about how the VBL are trying to focus more on the concerts bands.
At the Vic state championships in ballarat last weekend, I happened to purchase a program (they were $2 - rip-off) anyway, this is what the front page said.
VICTORIAN BRASS BAND CHAMPIONSHIPS.
There was no reference on that front page to concert bands, even though they were mentioned on the inside.

Also, it seems they could not get the date right. In the concert band section of the program it says the date is Saturday 24th August. It was actually the 23rd. We made the joke that we should come back the next day, since it did say the 24th. It's the same thing with the brass bands. It says the 25th when it should be the 24th.

So much for the VBL trying to focus more on concert bands, we don't even get a mention on the front page of the program at the state championships. and they should make up their minds as to what the exact date is, or just not stuff up the program.

Even though the program was done by the Royal South Strret Society, I still believe that the VBL has something to do with it. The least they could have done was given the concert bands a mention on the front page. Reading it you would think that it is only what it says it is, until you open the program and actually read that there are concert bands performing as well.

-Donna
Flute player @SACB

OK, I was also disappointed to read Victorian Brass Band Championships on the program. I also noticed the date error. The first time I read the program was when I arrived at the contest.

As for your comment "so much for the VBL trying to focus more on concert bands" the VBL didn't create the program. We provided the details and Royal South Street published the program. It would have been excellent to proof read the program before it went to print, but that's the nature of voluntary organisations - we (and Royal South Street) do our level best to get it right, but sometimes we don't. Judging the work of the VBL on some errors in a program that we didn't produce is a little on the harsh side, don't you think?